trading 'futures only' for living

[Francis]

oneman, when comes to tax issue, gov won't talking like that to u la, they will only take any of the opportunities to "squeeze" money from our pockets, especially for those "non-earth" ppl  I'm from Mars, my father from Pluto 

agree      

[oneman]

oneman, when comes to tax issue, gov won't talking like that to u la, they will only take any of the opportunities to "squeeze" money from our pockets, especially for those "non-earth" ppl  I'm from Mars, my father from Pluto 

Aiya, you think Gohmen squeeze and squeze..want to give to the common Earthlings aa..no lah..the G use it themselvesla...to made sure they are NOT COMMON earthling...may be G thought they from Saturn ..lupa daratanla...and G want show -off to the fellow Martian and Plutorian Beware..Santurion can eat Earthling, Martian and Plutorian in one go 

[smallcap]

  u seems talking 'Galaxy Language' la 
Yes, for those 'earthian' who listen to 'golfment' n joined their gang, they will have lot of benefits, the rest are still 2nd-level citizen no matter is earth or non-earth. But discuss this issue is no point oledi, we better try our best to earn more from the market, so that we will be safer.

[oneman]

u seems talking 'Galaxy Language' la 
Yes, for those 'earthian' who listen to 'golfment' n joined their gang, they will have lot of benefits, the rest are still 2nd-level citizen no matter is earth or non-earth. But discuss this issue is no point oledi, we better try our best to earn more from the market, so that we will be safer.

Yesss,,,even though i am 'earthling' i have no desire to play golf with the the golfmen...Santurion golmen eat all things...me ..a picky eater...i only eat what god permit...Thats why you all see me here...pull my tiny brain out -- trying guessing FKLI up or down ,up or down, up or down..speak to myself at times..ask fellow experienced Martian Plutorian what to do......sometimes i feel like crazy men...or like the crazy FKLI market itself...but thank God.. my capital is getting bigger now....

[smallcap]

Great

[Francis]

so good 

[survivor]

OK based on 'Pure Logic' ie without looking at the data how many points in daytrading can be made on the average in a day?

Here is my week end thinking which has no optimization ie. I am not looking at any data at all. However these only are the results and not the system.

The brokerage companies give one the opportunity of  'playing' the market. For that it charges a commision of RM 50 a round trip.

Now the question is how do they come to the calculation of the commision. I think that they must have calulated how much a 50% of daytraders can make in any given day on the average and divided by 2.

Why 50% ? Because any day some will win and some will lose.

Why divide by two? There is no reason to split the profit in any other way.

So if RM 50 is half the profit then ofcourse the profit is 2 Pts.

Thus a trader should atleast be making this profit per trade to barely survive.

So to arrive at a system for daytrading the minimum profit must be 2 pts.

Now that we have the answer, it is time to formulate the question -What is are the rules of the trading system

Another interesting question -
So if the profit is 2 pts then how much should the daily range on the average be (without looking at any data)?
Lets say about 25% of the range can be captured, then range = 8 pts average. So one needs to know in advance if teh range of teh day is going to be less than or greater than 8 pts. So this can be the signal to trade that day or not ?


Any comments ?

[Maxforce]

Well, first of all, if one is to be a daytrader, the commission cannot be RM50. Especially intraday trades.
Secondly, there's no rules for trading system. Only what works and what doesnt
Finally, daily targets are dangerous. It contravenes with the stop loss rule and also let the profit runs rule.

[survivor]

Maxforce,

Thanks for your comments.

My view is this:

1. What works or what does not must be based on some 'LOGIC' other wise one could be 'data-mining' or overoptimizing. There must be a reason to be in the trade.

2. If the RM50 can be lesser, all the better.

3. Although it was not mentioned that the 'target' is 2pts, I would like to make it clear that this is the average net result..which is different from the target. If teh average is 2 pts then the target has ofcourse to be much higher since the average includes the losing trades. For teh sake of the discussion I would suggest closing out the intraday trades near the end of the day .

4. On the same subject, a profit target can function as a 'profit retainer' and can be a great morale builer, especially when the target is hit and the market retraces. One can, say, use 50% of the contracts for this and let the remaining ride on into the sunset.

4. Thus there is no conflict with the stop loss 'rule'. In fact, when the target is hit the stop loss can be brought to breakeven or more depending on the strategy.

5. There is no conflict with the let the profits run 'rule' either.

6. The whole question is of moderation.

Thanks for your comments.

s

[Maxforce]

Well, my opinion differs slightly.
What works should not be on logic, or data mining. It should be based on actual trades in the market.
Sometimes, logic does not work. Well, to quote Newton - I could calculate the mass of heavenly bodies but could not comprehend the craziness of the market. Or something like that. So if market is or can be crazy, what good is logic?
There is an intraday commission rate. You just need to negotiate
Personally I dislike daily targets because it gives an undue pressure. It may give a morale boost if trades go in your way. But if the reverse is true, then there would be a tremendous pressure to jump into trades. Besides, it would also give an impression as if one needs to trade everyday, irregardless - which is not the right trading mentality. If I see opportunity, I trade. If I deem it risky, I lay back and watch.
Besides, why close winning trades each day, even if its for sake of discussion?
In practise, I am sure both you and I and other members do keep trades overnight. And sometimes, we gain from the opening gap. Of course, occassionally the reverse is true. However, the point is, let profits run.
Another note on let profits run. So if your profit target is achieved, you d exit the trade? Or you d let the market decide the top or would you exit when your analysis show that further gain potential is limited to the point it outweighs the risk?
It is imperative that the target does not make us impose what we think the market should behave. But rather let the profit run until we deem it is too risky to keep the open position. Let the market forces decide.

Cheers and Happy Trading!

[kyleow80]

Agreed! Why go against the market, when the market wants to go higher into the impossible. Let the market act according to what he wants and we just adjust our trading plan/system that suits us.

Why control the market when we can't even control ourself. So start by controlling/improving ourself, then only we will be a better trader. If we control the market, what do we learn. Nothing.

"Do you believe anyone can control the market?"................................

[Maxforce]

Gimme 1 billion 

[Teepo]

what do u all think about this topic?

1) Anybody doing trading 'futures only' for living?

My friend trades futures for a living, and makes tons of money doing so.  The recent run-up to 1280 nearly made him a millionaire, and he was smart enough to short FKLI thereafter.  He has a system that he follows to the tees.  He does not share his trading secret with me but I understand his system is based on the combination of simple technical parameters such as moving averages, ADX, etc. 

Frankly speaking, those using breakout trading system would be making tons of money in the futures market in the last 2-3 months....

[bizfun]

ADX used to measure trendiness and Moving Average play well during trending market. ADX is almost fix with time period 14. Now, the secret depends on if using 2 lines moving average crossover, please find out what is the slow and fast time period your friend used? 

We may do backtesting on buy/sell of Moving Average crossover while ADX today is higher then yesterday (mean trending still intact). This is just assumption on simple combination, your friend may add more secret to filter false signals if possible.

Few ideas on constructing trading strategy, as below:-

• Using trailing stop to lock in profit.
• Once ADX go down, switch to breakout system.
• The greater the ADX number, the more accurate the moving average crossover.

If you have more hints about your friend system, don't mind to post it here so that we can do more study. I believe a lot of experts here can help us discover the treasure. 

[asiatrader98]

serious? Actually few remisers in future tell me that what we get in futures trading is non taxable. According to you, if you become too famous and successful in the line, then this may become a problem also. i think foreign country, hong kong is non taxable.

btw....may be i m too small for them to bother. 

cheers and happy trading

unless u are the professional trader (stockist or local member) otherwise, no tax for any capital gain
, & if i am not mistaken, only tax 30% of the capital gain if u are the local